Comments on: Bringing All That We Know to the Education of the Poor

By: janevangalen

janevangalen — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:44:01 +0000

Hello counselor. Thanks for reading and commenting. Sure. The day-to-day lives of poor people do differ from the lives of people who live comfortable material lives. And the lives of poor people on farms in Wisconsin different from the lives of poor people in urban New York and differ from the lives of poor people in the newly-poor suburbs of small cities in the southwest US and the lives of recent refugees from Africa. To suggest that all these poor people share a common culture is just amazing and that they’d no longer be poor if they just acted more like middle class people is doing the poor a huge disservice.

All Ruby Payne would have to say is “don’t overgeneralize. I based my whole book on things that I saw while interacting with people in the neighborhood where my husband grew up, a whole generatio ago”. But she won’t do that, and I have to wonder if that’s not in part because she makes so much money claiming to speak about “the poor”.

By: School Counselor

School Counselor — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:25:08 +0000

I do agree the Ruby Payne should have more empirical evidence backing up her research. While I cannot agree with the concept all people from a certain “class” have the same values and work from the same “hidden rules”, I did find some of her generalizations fascinating. If anything, it helped me see alternative viewpoints and values. I agree that is is unfair to assume that class determines these values, but I do not believe it is helpful to ignore the unavoidable differences people living in poverty face based on being forced to think based on survival rather than choice.

By: Ruby Payne, Scholar? « Education and Class

Ruby Payne, Scholar? « Education and Class — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:42:35 +0000

[...] prepares teachers to understand the lives of poor students. They note, as many others have also done, that Payne’s work is based on many unsubstantiated [...]

By: Peggy Semingson

Peggy Semingson — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:50:33 +0000

Hi! Thanks for writing about this important topic. I am one of the co-authors on this article in TCR. There is a more recent article in January, 2008 by Joel Dworin Randy Bomer in January, 2008 of “English Education” (NCTE) titled “What We All (Supposedly) Know about the Poor: A Critical Discourse Analysis of Ruby Payne’s “Framework”. It is more of a microanalysis of the language Payne uses to enlist the reader to buy into an othering of families in poverty. I think you are right about suggesting that her discourses resonate with popular culture beliefs about poverty….a sort of unquestioning attitude towards her work….
My website: http://literacyupdate.wordpress.com/

By: Lone Star Ma

Lone Star Ma — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:23:37 +0000

God, I hate Ruby Payne’s book so much. I was so deeply offended when we had to study it in my certification classes. And yes, there is that dangerous ease of recognizing what she says – but she understands so little that is beneath what she’s recognizing and judges so easily.

By: janevangalen

janevangalen — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:12:05 +0000

Hello, U.S.,

I think that Payne wouldn’t be so popular if she didn’t resonate at some level with the experiences of people who live among or teach poor kids.

I grow concerned that because she may generate some spark of recognition about some people I know, I then begin seeing other people through those same lenses because I’ve been told that poor people have these characteristics in common.

It is worth an honest discussion. And instead, there seem to be parallel monologues, and that’s quite uncommon in education, I think.

By: The Urban Scientist

The Urban Scientist — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 00:07:01 +0000

I decided to look up some info and learn a little about R Payne and her approach. There is something rather seductive about her lessons. Seductive because if you lived in poverty or worked with people in poverty you can relate to much of what she says..Even I feel like an amen or 2 after my personal work experiences….

But I also see what the critics are saying. She hasn’t been vettted. She uses anecdotes (which are perfect for informal discussions, basis of future study, relating to people) as if it were hard and fast sociology data. That’s not right.

And some of her sweeping generalizations are rather tough to swallow, but there is a superficial truth to it…Not that she’s correct, but many her observations of what happens among many poor people are true and do happen in real life. But being poor, impoverished, urban, black, latino, immigrant or whatever does NOT pre-determine your destiny or capacity to learn or adapt or be a good citizen.

It’s worth an honest discussion.